As I amuse myself with this little blog, I notice that, while reading back, some of my posts incorporate a bit of philosophy. I'm a huge fan of philosophy and thought puzzles, so I thought I'd continue posting things like this. In this blog, I'll explore the classic Greek paradox known as The Ship of Theseus, and how it may related to listening to metal and punk music. When many founding members of a band leave, is it still the same band?
The Ship of Theseus
There are many many variations of The Ship of Theseus story, but I'll share the one I'm most familiar with. As far as I know, this is actually the original version. It's important to note that, if you're not familiar with philosophical stories, they're typically completely made up and designed to make you think about one action, and then compare it to another.
So there's this massive, beautiful boat known as the Ship of Theseus, and it's being chased around the world by another ship. I believe in the original story the ship has been stolen by pirates, and the ship is trying to be recovered and returned to its city because it has some historic value. This epic chase goes on for many years, and eventually parts of the Ship of Theseus need to be repaired or replaced.
Because this is a chase, the ship can't just pull into a port and request repairs are made. The crew of the Theseus must quickly chop down trees and make the repairs to the ship while sailing.
Old pieces of the Ship of Theseus were thrown over the side of the ship because there's no reason to keep some old wood laying around, especially in heavy pursuit when each extra pound matters. However, the old pieces of the ship were picked up and collected by the following ship. After many years of chasing, the following ship had collected every single piece of the original Ship of Theseus--the mast, the rudder, the steering wheel, the deck, everything.
After collecting all the pieces, the following ship returned home and rebuilt the Ship of Theseus using all of the original parts.
So now the question is: which ship is the Ship of Theseus? Is it the one that was stolen by pirates and is still sailing around the world? Or is it the one in the port that was rebuilt with the original parts?
There is no correct answer to the question, though many have been proposed over the years. This story is what's known as a "thought experiment," and it's designed to test how you feel about one subject so you can apply it to another. There's another famous thought experiment about a violinist which is supposed to reflect how you feel about abortions which is rather amusing, but that's a story for another day.
TSOL
In the early 1980s, hardcore punk was talking California by storm. One of those bands was TSOL--a group who often gets compared for their similarities with Misfits due to their image and lyrics. Everything was going great for TSOL, until some group members wanted to progress musically, and drummer Todd Barnes and lead vocalist Jack Grisham (who you may remember from the 2003 California governor's election where Arnold Swarzenegger won, and porn mongol Larry Flynt and self-parody Gary Coleman also ran).
The new TSOL started playing hard arena rock with Guns'n'Roses, and within a few years, the other two remaining members also quit.
Then in the late 90s, the original members of TSOL started playing under the name TSOL again and playing old school punk. So for a period, there were two TSOLs running around! But here's the kicker. The new TSOL playing hard rock was holding the legal rights to use the name TSOL and play their copyrighted songs. So while many would be eager to assume the punk rock TSOL is the true TSOL since it consists of the original members, legally the hard rock TSOL is the true TSOL.
Hmmm...
Other bands
So when a band goes though several line-up changes, is it really the same band? New members bring in new styles and influences and the majority of the time this results in an entirely new direction. When is a name change appropriate?
Suicidal Tendencies had a new line-up with every album which also generated a new sound with each new album. At what point do you start calling ST the Mike Muir & Company Project Band? On one hand it did help progress the band's sound, but on the other hand it really makes the Suicidal Tendencies name relative to specific period of time.
Rob Zombie's solo band has seen quite a bit of line up changes, but now currently features Ginger Fish and John 5 of Marilyn Manson. At what point do we start calling the group Rob Manson? Hypothetically speaking, what if Manson himself and Twiggy Ramierz joined the band. Could you still call the project Rob Zombie?
I had a much more interesting ending to this blog planned, but it escapes me at the moment...
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